@mewmew this is a pretty bad take usually what is meant by "free speech" will differ depending on what people think is being """censored""" in china that will be a lot of things since they have an actual auth government in the US it's probably incredibly edgy stuff considering just how unregulated speech is over there
@mewmew C'mon, you're smarter than this. Hong Kong protestors flying American flags is why its worrying. "Free speech" is an American concept, and a crappy one at that. They want freedom from oppression, they're not gonna feel less oppressed just because they can say the n word.
@FloatingGhost I'm not so sure... there are some arguments for restricting speech more but that doesn't mean that calling for free speech is an inherently bad thing - which is what a lot of Mastodon users argue.
@mewmew there is a correlation that is pretty hard to ignore between people calling for total free speech and those that would shout hateful stuff because the only real regulation on "free speech" in the US/UK is stuff that veers into hateful whilst i don't disagree with you that freedom of speech is a good idea in principal, it's somewhat hard to say that in certain crowds it isn't used as code for "we want to hurl abuse at people"
@mewmew America doesn't have "freedom of speech" in the way you're thinking of. You have the freedom to shit on your fellow working class, sure, but talk about Trump going on certain private planes and your car will appear at the bottom of a river. You have the freedom to pretend you have power, but if anything you said actually did, you would be disposed of.
@mewmew@shebang But some speech is bad!! ... What about the speech I don't like? If I don't like it, it must be hurtful and we should stop it. It's not just speech. Bad speech is violent 🔪 because speech is literally violence and literally Hitler. If you support speech you must support Nazis, Gandhi, Hitler and Islamic Extremism .. in that order.
@FloatingGhost@mewmew I'm kinda sympathetic to both of these -- I think some of it is "left" type people adopting enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend rhetoric that gradually blurs into a sincere position. I also feel that many kinds of hateful speech can be protected against in private spaces through private means, though this obviously doesn't transfer to work, school, [...]
@mewmew America upholds no real freedom of speech. Oh sure, you can say you dislike x politically on Facebook, but be at a scene of a crime and the knee on your back will cut your ability to speak real quick. There is no "freedom of speech" in a society with a power hierarchy, because to keep power, you have to keep the dissenters quiet. This happens obviously in China, and it happens through media propaganda in America.
sure, but there is a difference when you can make trump memes and say how much you wish trump and everyone connected to him was dead. you say that about xi jinping or don't fall into their song and dance and you get disappeared
there are things we need though, like stronger whistleblower protections
@kaikatsu but acting like Americans don't have any freedom of speech is simply wrong. You can criticize the government, you can say who and what you like and hate, etc. Just because we're not perfect doesn't mean we're terrible.
@mewmew America is the leader of the current world, and they're smart enough to know that "throw everybody we don't like in camps" won't work. Well, they kinda do, because they still regularly frame citizens to give them prison years in the double digits. It's much better to ease the population through media propaganda. Cute cop dog saves kitten from burning building! Evil antifa member throws concrete milkshake in act of *thunder roar* terrorism!!! 🤔
@kaikatsu@mewmew Free speech isn't an American concept. It's been a concept since long before America and will be a concept long after. Even if we're just going by when it was outright stated as free speech, John Milton (author of Paradise Lost) was talking about it in the 1600s, but it was talked about and "a thing" long before; legalized censorship was a concept (more or less) originating with the Catholic Church.
For that matter, America doesn't have free speech.
@a7@mewmew Most supporters of "free speech don't actually support it, only the americanized version of it. Look at how quickly supporters of China are censored! It's not freedom of speech, it's an obsession with whoever the media says is the underdog.
@kaikatsu@mewmew ya still doing the dumb argument, freedom of speech was supported by anarchist in the 1920s and people who fought for womens,blacks and gay rights through 1930-1960. Your view of related is stunted to the year of your birth making you ignore all implications of the practice of free speech and its essential function in moving forward society
@kaikatsu@mewmew I don't understand what point it is that you're trying to make. So America is bad at upholding the principle of free speech/expression therefore it's a shitty concept. Seems to me to be an ideal that every successful society should strive to embrace.
>free speech = crappy concept
Whelp, looks like we’re not going to be seeing anything more from @kaikatsu anymore. Since free speech is so crappy, looks like you’re not allowed to say anything anymore. Bye!