GNU/blobcat

#Fediverse demographics #poll about age and sex/gender (please boost/repeat/share!)

note: women are usually overrepresented in polls like this.
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announces
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@mewmew >including under 13

COPPA intensifies

@mewmew

its me

the only trans male on here

@mewmew

This feels very scientific. *click!*

@kazuma @mewmew I thought you were just gay.

@mewmew > <13

@chuculate @mewmew

blobcatthinking that's damaging to my solipsism!

@mewmew not that it matters for me, but is a trans male a "trans woman" or a "trans man"?

@dave @mewmew Trans are what they identify as. So biological woman who is trans would be a trans male. No trans person willingly refers themselves as their birth sex.

@mewmew git.pleroma.social [Feature] Nested polls.
I always wondered about polls: Who can see who voted what?

@sylveon COPPA doesn't apply here since Fedi doesn't track personal information

@dave trans male = ftm

@mewmew i'd be careful about that if i were you

other instance may have different policies which could lead to you accidentally violating it if you're not careful

@chuculate no one can see who voted what except for your instance admin I think

@mewmew i am the only representation for 13-18 other
im smack dab in between those numbers

@reitrace @mewmew
Well hello babe 02_hyper

@mewmew So just about everyone's answered cis male or trans female. Sounds about right.

@ArdanianRight yeah... once this poll is over it'll be interesting to look at the statistics

@ArdanianRight surprised at the number of people in 25-34 tbh, higher than I'd expect

@mewmew think if certain instances didn't block ours, the "trans female" would deffinitely outrun any other

@blobyoumu I doubt that - even in many of communities, the majority of people are men.

@mewmew There should be a trans female to cis male dating service on the #fediverse. There is money to be made there.

@mewmew *laughs in 19-24 cis female*

@mewmew yes, but this is fedi

@pasture are you actually a girl tho?

@mewmew Everyone who says they're a girl on the Internet probably is. @pasture

@mewmew @ArdanianRight well, I think a lot of us are 90's kids who were exposed to computers and pre-socnet online communities fairly early in life.

@sean @ArdanianRight I guess that makes sense blobcatshrug people seem younger though

@mewmew lying???? on the internet???? do you really think i'd do that?????

@pasture who knows

@Coomer @mewmew i said it because I was the only vote in that category

@pasture I'm also a cis female I just have a cock and a beard and no tits and identify as a male @mewmew

@Coomer @mewmew don't worry, it's ok to be in the closet

@Coomer @mewmew just come out when you're ready, no pressure

@mewmew >there are some 13 year olds on fedi

@mewmew This is agephobic since I don't agree with my calendar age but you didn't give me the option to choose otherwise. I'm calling @Gargron to see what he has to say about this

@igeljaeger Let's be real the majority or 13 and under pretending to know how the magic computer box works but I bet they don't even work at a Verizon store irl @mewmew

@kazuma @chuculate @mewmew I thought when women want a dick they can just ask a guy out

@Coomer @igeljaeger @mewmew gotta get the 13 year olds in my dms stat

@mewmew
1) I believe the correct term is cis men, not cis male. Also trans men/women not trans male/female.
2) it's interesting that the overwhelming majority are males (well over 75%). And yes, this includes trans women since they are of the male sex.
3) it's terrifying that there are so many people who are either trans or confused about their gender.
4) This poll needed options for "I don't want to give my gender/age". Right now they'd be confused with people who picket others, who are likely of the "nonbinary", "otherkin" or other similar identities.
5) These kind of polls are very difficult to do right, and it would have been better to either do multiple posts, or better yet to a Google spreadsheet survey and link to that.

@alyx this is true, I just wanted something casual - if you do it on an external platform you lose a lot of engagement, making it more likely to bias towards people who like taking polls.

@mewmew
The strange part is I'm not sure this poll qualifies as casual anyway. There are a bit too many options for it to be casual.

@mewmew That's kind of bias number 1:
+Ppl willing it take the poll.
-Ppl unwilling to do so.
An axiom of statistics regrettably haha.
@alyx

@chuculate @alyx yeah, as I mentioned in the post women are much more likely to take polls than men

@mewmew I had to read the post again just to check my brain because I read it as "men are overrepresented[...]". A sign for me to go to sleeb.
@alyx
Good night to you both.

@mewmew Welp, the Fediverse is a sausage fest. Definitely not surprising.

@mewmew Wow, almost every woman on the fedi is a trans woman.

lol

Now, its a problem of scope, I know at least two "garden variety" women on the fedi, but the poll hasn't seemed to hit their attention yet.

@mewmew @chuculate oh, that's smart move for you as an admin of blob.cat!

@mewmew
where?

@mewmew @ArdanianRight People 25-34 have worse opsec than younger people on fedi.

@mewmew @sylveon Your survey does, and it's on fedi.

@notclacke @sylveon it's not identifiable to the person

@shebang @mewmew And here I thought asking a woman for her age was considered rude.

@mewmew Looks like 26% of Fediverse users need to be gassed.

@mewmew Too many genders, didn't vote

@mewmew ok where are the enby and agender options

yes polls are hard

@xerz "other"

that was one of the hardest things to decide on how to handle in the poll though

@xerz @mewmew arent those covered by (other)
i mean come on

@blobyoumu @mewmew ...I didn't see that at first blobcatderpy

@rice @pasture @Coomer @mewmew I voted for cis neckbeard

@rice @Coomer @pasture as I mentioned in the post, women are more likely to take polls

@rice @Coomer @pasture me too. these results aren't too unexpected to me. I think a lot of the <13 results are just trolling though

@rice @Coomer @georgia @pasture most people here are autistic tbh

@Coomer
people don't just go on the internet and tell lies
@mewmew @pasture

@georgia
that doesn't only apply to the internet tho
@Coomer @mewmew @pasture
everyone is fake
randomTemp18972667160754769215.…
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@mewmew Lmao terrible poll because nobody will agree on what trans and cis mean. Feminists who reject "cis" as a label will say "other" or not vote, some transwomen will pick "trans male" and some transmen "trans female", and so on.

Also holy moly is there a limit to the number of options you can provide? I bet its UINT64_MAX or something.

@socjuswiz good for them? seems like what the answers mean are pretty obvious to me and they can always ask a question.

@mewmew @socjuswiz I answered "25-34 other". Not trying to be pedantic, I just reject the cis label. Since the poll is targeted towards a certain political viewpoint it will probably affect the results somewhat.

@alex @mewmew @socjuswiz >certain political viewpoint
how is whether you identify as your birth sex or not, political

@alex @mewmew Huh, wait a minute, it only shows me my own vote. "1 vote" it says after I voted.

(I voted the same lel.)

@alex @tuxcrafting@letsalllovela.in Why ;_;

@alex @socjuswiz nah, not really. There's not a better term than "cis". It's not even really a label.

@alex @tuxcrafting @socjuswiz

this is such a silly article, has this woman never heard of a GNC person?

some folks just don't feel gender strongly, i sure as hell don't

an old dysphoria essentialist said "you don't feel your gender, you are your gender" and while that isn't the case 100% of the time, it usually is

@mewmew nice try FBI

@mewmew @alex There's an easy alternative: list "woman" and "transwoman" instead of "cis female" and "trans female."

Then again that implicates "transwomen aren't women."

If you want something completely neutral there's no way way out I guess.

@kazuma @alex @tuxcrafting@letsalllovela.in I don't think you get the point. Here's more resources about why feminists reject cis:

https://feministwiki.org/wiki/Cisgender

@hyphen @mewmew good play, NSA

@socjuswiz
guys its a demographic survey aimed at collecting information, and you know what mewmew is trying to convey. personally I prefer "trans woman" to "trans female" because it is less ambiguous for those thinking in terms of bio sex, but his terminology is the best to ensure maximum participation and y'all are just being autists carping over terminology.
@kazuma @alex

@socjuswiz @kazuma @alex I have a question for you, do you mind being asked?

@mewmew tfw 13-18 trans female

@socjuswiz @alex

As such, she would belong in the same category as a conservative woman who strictly adheres to traditional notions of femininity.

i mean yeah? like a nice cute boy with a penis and a serial rapist are the same gender, gender isn't any indication of political views or opinions

Another problem with the concept of cisgender arises when considering lesbian women, especially butch lesbians, for whom gender non-conformity feels natural.

and?

While every woman can choose to disregard rules of femininity after coming to a political consciousness, some women, especially lesbians, might feel naturally repelled from feminine stereotypes, beginning in early childhood.

that's pretty lesbophobic ngl, but i'm guessing they're referring to getting a husband - which should be more clear

The concept of gender identity would have it that they are possibly transgender and as such not women, even though they might feel perfectly content with the word "woman" when stripped off of feminine stereotypes and limited to a non-sexist, scientific definition. Yet the concept of "cisgender" groups them together with women who find it easier to perform femininity, effectively erasing their unique experiences with regard to gender.

no one is saying that gnc people don't have unique experiences, black women have it different than hispanic women, women in china have it different than women in sweden. are they different genders too?

im a gnc male myself, that doesn't make me nonbinary. being labeled cis gender is just another descriptor and is worthless outside of trans discussions. it's just a hypothetical "do you have a penis/vagina?" "yes." "are you a boy/girl?" "yes." "you are cis gender." kind of thing, but if you have to think about those questions, then you may or may not be trans.

and yes, you're right, i didn't scroll up far enough to see that alex was supportive of this

@mewmew tfw 8 yo bird loli and usually underrepresented in polls like this.

@nerthos @mewmew
If we could add lots of genders to party politics, perhaps more people would stop voting.

@Kat more common than you'd expect

@mewmew
Nice try nsa.
maybe using a framaform would be more handy:
https://framaforms.org

also it is fully gafam free, have fun

@georgia @kazuma @alex I'm a computer scientist. If I don't carp over terminology, my life has no meaning. blobpeek

@kick I feel a troll question incoming but go ahead. blobcatcoffee

@kazuma @alex

@kazuma Lesbians frequently report that they've been actively repulsed from feminine rituals since childhood, and vice versa for gay men. I used to think this is just stereotyping until I realized it's a very well-acknowledged thing among the LGB community. There's also an interesting study showing a correlation between childhood gender non-conformity and later discovering one's homosexual identity.

Anyway, that's a tangent.

>no one is saying that gnc people don't have unique experiences, black women have it different than hispanic women, women in china have it different than women in sweden. are they different genders too?

You do realize that what you're saying essentially supports the position that "cis" is nonsensical, given that no two women on earth have the same experience of womanhood? The only thing unifying women in every culture on the planet is that they're born with female anatomy, not a "female gender identity" which would be very culture-bound.

The definitions of "cis woman" and "trans women" jointly rely on an underlying definition of a "female gender identity." Any definition of such a subjective or social/cultural identity will necessarily exclude some actual female-born women, who have no intention of being excluded from the definition of womanhood.

The only sensible universal definitions of womanhood and manhood are those based purely on mundane anatomic facts. It's what the words were meant to describe in the first place: the capacity to play one or the other role in the binary sexual reproduction system. The stereotypes and "identities" built on top should be dismantled, because they're ultimately harmful for everyone.

@alex

@socjuswiz @kazuma @alex

Background to establish there's no ill-will here:
From what I can tell, you're a UK-feminism sort of guy. No qualms here—Riot Grrrl tracks are great, and the wave of feminism they're ripping off had some killer music festivals.


Since Kazuma is a female-to-male trans person, some of your ideological affiliation would say you just mansplained to the individual in question. Would you say this qualifies as sexism in some way? And how does your ideology reconcile the existence of people like Kazuma?

These are genuine questions: people of your particular makeup are not found very often, and I have no particularly-heavy stake in it, so I have many questions for them.

@sylveon @mewmew There are multiple people under 13.

@tk @sylveon @mewmew There's allegedly a preteen tranny.

Thanks, Jews.

@mewmew Thanks, got my Medium page draft up right now.
Fedi Has a Cis Male Problem

@tk @sylveon @mewmew That is genuinely concerning considering the rampant lolicons

@sylveon @mewmew I don't remember the last time COPPA was relevant or used at all.

@mewmew next time ask the same thing but add the option "single and searching" or "not searching" and then we'll do a dating instance and Isi doesn't see where anything would be wrong with this plan pieapprove

@alyx @mewmew

> better
> use google

@kick Those are very tame questions. I expected something scary. blob_cat_giggle

I assumed Kazuma was male (as in "AMAB"). If I knew their background I might have posted with a different tone, though I don't think I've been rude or have I? In any case, being born female obviously doesn't automatically give one an understanding of how sexism etc. works, and I always try to find a balance between clearly expressing my opinions (which are based on radical feminism) and not mansplaining.

If I understand it correctly, mansplaining refers to when a guy assumes a woman to know less about a topic because she's a woman, and proceeds to arrogantly talk over her. As such, the mere act of expressing a clear disagreement with a woman, even if on a topic like feminism, wouldn't fulfill the criteria.

That being said, there is this phenomenon where men in general seem to have a LOT of opinions on feminism, and women get tired of it since most of it is BS. If a woman shuts me down immediately just because I'm a male disagreeing with her and calls it mansplaining, I might slightly roll my eyes but I'll shut up and leave her alone, unless it's something that I'm extremely passionate about like prostitution abolitionism...

When you say "how does your ideology reconcile the existence of people like xyz" what exactly do you mean? If you mean what the radfem position is on why some female born people become FtM, there's a lot on that but I'm not sure if that's what you meant?

@kazuma @alex

@lucasdondo thanks!

@kaikatsu @tk @sylveon lolicons have the franchise too!

@tn5421 @sylveon YouTube got fucked with it

@isi blobcat3c how about... ask for "single and searching" and also location?

@socjuswiz @kick @kazuma @alex I have a scary question blobcatdevil

WHY WAS I UNTAGGED THIS IS THE MOST INTERESTING SUBTHREAD HERE! blobcatree

@mewmew @kazuma @kick @socjuswiz Lol sorry I figured you were just trying to make a poll and didn't want the drama

@alex @kazuma @kick @socjuswiz nah this was interesting lol

@mewmew even better!!! And how about we ask people if they would voluntarily share their gps data so blind dates can better find each other?

@isi yes!

Although... how would people maintain anonymity while in the same room?

I wonder how y'all at fosdem do it.

@mewmew wasn't on fosdem uwu
Too expensive for poor student-isi

@isi oh... 3c36, fosdem, I get them confused blobcatgooglytrash

I think Fedi is ploy by airline companies to get me to buy tickets to Europe... And it's working

@mewmew mewmew the census blob

@lizzubee yes uwu

Also cute pfp

@mewmew no fedi does not want you to finance airplane companies, it wants you to MOVE here meowpaw

@isi I will move there if Trump wins 2020 I swear

@mewmew Let's sign that contract with blood blobcatwitch

@isi I'm scared blobcatsweats can we sign it with snuggles instead? blobcatreachrev

@mewmew are you sure? What if signing with snuggles is much more serious and binding!!! blobcatsweat

@toast @mewmew with other words you want to engage in snuggling? blobcat3c

@isi that... sounds good to me blobcatblush

@toast @isi will you provide the ceremonial headpats?

@mewmew would love to see you at fosdem. I think it would be incredibly great that you could get a c3, but I'm really busy there.

@mewmew @isi

hey if u can afford plane tickets could you donate so i can get my car fixed, it won't pass emissions and it's gonna be 110°F soon, thanks

@kaikatsu >saying that lolicon = child molestor unironically
@tk @mewmew

@sylveon @kaikatsu @tk I think kaikatsu was joking there

@mewmew @kaikatsu if they were, they weren't doing a good job blobcatthinkingglare @tk

@sylveon @kaikatsu @tk eh, seemed clear to me

@daughter @mewmew
I know I know... Google is the devil and all. But you won't see me deny when they do something well, when they offer a good product. And their spreadsheet online app has the best way of doing an online survey that is both easy to use able to adapt to however complex or simple you need the survey and it's even free.

If you know of any tool that is able to achieve the same things, let me know. I'd love to be able to replace Google Docs in this matter.

@mewmew Is there a reason there are no nonbinary options?

@alyx @mewmew

It's not free, it costs the freedoms of everyone that uses it. Like, I know I'm RMS levels autistic for cutting them as out of my life as possible, but I just find them truly horrifying -- you deserve better, it's a shame you don't have it.

@daughter @mewmew
I try to avoid them as much as I can too. I was pretty happy when I managed to get microG working on an old rooted phone, to get rid of Google Play Services. But I'm not gonna be autistic about it. If they have a tool that is useful, and there are no similar alternatives, yeah, I might use it.

@mewmew Nice try, G-Man.

@mewmew something is wrong, as I voted on 45-54 cis female, but it's saying 0%

@GwenfarsGarden try refreshing the results?

alternatively, you might be under one percent of the total (so it would therefore only show as 0%).

@mewmew I've tried refreshing. It must be bc I'm under 1%. Thanks for clarifying

@GwenfarsGarden yeah.

interestingly (to me at least) the demographics at the start of the poll were much higher for younger people, and for women (both trans or cis) - but as the poll spread around the percentage of men increased significantly.

@mewmew nice try fbi

@wowaname blobcatpolicepeek I already know what you are though

@mewmew where is "all of the above"

@mewmew Ouch!

@mewmew I never got to vote! (55+ cis female for the record). Also don't see nearly as many trans people as I know are here (perhaps it's just that I'm on a trans-friendly instance)

@irina I was surprised too, I expected there would be more trans than cis women, but there aren't.

@mewmew @irina Its true though, us tranners love alt-tech.

I'm laughing @mewmew has enough legal sample size to submit a paper and a journal.
Legally now it can be said Fediverse is inclusive.
@shebang @irina @daughter

@mewmew I'm curious about just gender (someone said it might be that people just clicked the first option for their age group without paying attention to gender), so I made this: https://queer.party/@cassolotl/103907487094948842