Microsoft is so insidious... they're worming their way into every major language community and are doing their absolute best to ingratiate themselves with the FOSS community while they continue to destroy computing for consumers

Microsoft and Apple are the main reasons we still have a "priestly class" of software engineers and I don't care how many streams they do with cool developers and engineers, they still suck and you still shouldn't work with them.

And like, yes, it's all fine and good that they're better than other tech companies with diversity, and that they do a lot of developer outreach, and whatever. But they are still responsible, in large part, for the absolutely sorry state of computing.

That's forgivable! All they have to do is make an effort! Make the desktop less hostile, open up their APIs and middlewares, stop making exclusivity deals with hardware and software vendors. But they never will.

So forgive me if I don't give a shit if they're giving away cool vaporwave swag with Clippy on. They actively make the world a worse place. Fuck Microsoft.

And you know what? I'm not saying this lightly. This is really difficult. I know so many amazing developers building amazing things at Microsoft. I just spent an hour watching one of them stream.

But it doesn't MATTER. It does not matter how many cool FOSS projects you fund with your left hand when you use your right to put up walls between those tools and all but a tiny fraction of your users.

It doesn't matter how great your OS is if it's designed in such a way as to be unusable for many. It doesn't matter how much cool software exists on your platform if the platform itself is a steaming pile of hostile ad-riddled garbage.

And, of course, anyone saying this won't be listened to, because we're just a bunch of FOSS crazies. We're just a bunch of techie wackos who don't know what REAL uses need. Even though we've been over here building free desktops for twenty-five years with basically zero funding.

@tindall can you elaborate on this class idea

@hope Basically the stratification of the world into "users" and "developers". It's a false binary that's really harmful, but it's made real in, for instance, the fact that you have to install XCode to "become a developer" in the eyes of Mac OS before you can use half of the operating system.

Of course free desktops aren't as polished as commercial desktops in some ways. Of course you can't immediately replace your Windows laptop with a System76 unit and have everything work flawlessly for you. They've been making sure of that for a decade and a half! But it's so much closer than even just a year ago.

And Apple too, of course. They are not in any way exempt from this. It makes me so disheartened that I have to get a Mac for my job, not because Linux won't run the software - it's all running in Docker - but because all the _other_ devs have Macs so that's what they've standardized the build environment and compliance on.

I'm sorry I'm so salty about this, but it's one of those things like good public transit or UBI that I can't help but look at and say, some small group people could simply get out of bed and say "Today I will make the world a better place." and just FIX it. And everyone's life would be slightly better forever.

And they don't. Every day.

(thread missing CW) Terran horribleness, corporations, capitalism, abusive software

*boost thread*

@tindall i wonder if this will change with the processor thing

@chr That's a really good question! On the other hand, we have to run VMs now to test our code in Docker; I would be surprised if, by the time the new chips are in flagship laptops, Google doesn't follow AWSs lead and have Linux on ARM instances that we can target.

@tindall I understand your problem and see only acceptance as a solution! In addition, for your own well-being, to represent your own opinion as far as you don't want to stand in line against an entire society where you would only be harmed!
So stand for yourself and simply show your preferences and state what you represent if possible, whenever the situation arises! So you will win! LG

@alickw @tindall Hi, been a FLOSS aesthetic for a while now. About the only thing that telling people your preferences gets you is a "that's nice".

At least we're not getting laughed out of the room, but that's been a long haul to get here.

suicide mention

@alickw yeah i mean i guess i could just enjoy my life in america until climate change renders the planet unlivable and then shoot myself, too, but i feel like it's more healthy to try to make the world a better place than just live in a shitty one forever

suicide mention

@tindall 617/5000
I can only answer this with my experience as a 38-year-old person, which extends over the almost uncontrollable human personality which, in my experience, only contributes to acceptance and the benefits of the explicitly specific social and personal benefit!

suicide mention

@tindall As can be seen publicly in politics, their counterattack of power is only harmful to the desired goal, all people understand their own performance personally and only feel hurt in case of doubt by others, which does not form a society but does the opposite!

@tindall Nah, don't be sorry. This is a good rant.

@tindall Apple is worse. But yeah, Microsoft have been the epitome of twofaced backstabbing scum ever since WordPerfect in 1982.

@tindall Ultimately the problem is the wealth disparity. If wealth were distributed more equally, we might even manage to have rule of law again. But in Microsoft’s case, the specific problem is how they treat ideas like commodities. That’s why good people don’t succeed in the closed source software and the entertainment industry, because it all depends on what’s essentially a scam. So you might not be able to fix everything, but denying legitimacy to the scam called IP is the best thing I can think to do about companies like Microsoft.

@craigmaloney @tindall I am close to 40 and am working on developing myself in programming and understand how hard it is to grasp and understand program lines myself and to recognize the extent and understanding of system technology!

@alickw @tindall Welcome. I've been using Linux full-time since 1994. I say this not to say I'm somehow better, but to say that the gains we've made have been through a lot of tireless work and advocacy. What you may see as FLOSS folks dismissing the outside world is because the world we see is crumbling. We see our movements co-opted and our message diluted. Acceptance is akin to giving up at this point.

@alickw @tindall Put a different way: the machine that Nora has in her background is a Sinclair ZX-80. It was a machine that you could literally build yourself with some soldering skill. They sold manuals of the source code, and you could (with practice) understand as much as you wanted to about the machine.

That's what FLOSS offers: a level of understanding and knowledge and interoperability.

What keeps us from that are companies that are putting their ideology of openness in the way.

@tindall So, nothing really changed.

@_sizeofcat @tindall one additional thing one could do to make the world a better place - ranting already counted - would be to post suggestions or experience with implementing them, for what to do to improve things while living in America.

How would/do you reduce your energy use?
Gas use?
Do you largely source food grown in nearby farms?
Do your food sources avoid petroleum-derived fertilizers and pesticides?

I think it would improve things.

@tindall OS X used to be so comfy blobcatcomfy

@craigmaloney @tindall I can understand you, but there is probably something hidden under the surface that is Foss! Floss has a rather backward effect on society and most of them have no idea of the modular systems of non-free software and see only the progress and not the proof of actual programming knowledge!

@alickw @tindall I think you have some more exploring to do on some FLOSS projects. The best part is FLOSS works out in the open so you can verify this yourself. Let your own research guide you. Take the opinions of others with grains of salt, because at best they should only season your opinions, not form them; mine included.

I challenge you to also research other companies and determine what they are doing. It might be more difficult to do a direct comparison, but do your best.

Good luck!

I so very very agree with you. And as soon as i got my lead dev hat, i started doing things for this awful state of things go away.

What i did, for the developer env, is to standardise it on Linux, because “Thatʼs what the CI system uses”, then helped other devs running Windows and OS/X to set up their systems to be able to work on it.

@tindall I agree pretty much 100%. But I'm a little bit more (albeit guardedly) optimistic. FLOSS is slowly eating up the software world. The commercial stuff has been pushed out of many once entrenched domains: supercomputers, servers, embedded OS, web browsers and services, databases, file storage, etc. Bigger companies understand the advantages (and yeah it's problemantic but still)¹. But individual "consumers" tend to be more motivated by conformity, fear and hype (aka marketing). Perhaps advocacy like yours is helping.


@tindall Drew DeVault put it well in this blog post - Windows, MacOS and co are all best described as "Vendor-purpose OS"

@alickw @craigmaloney yay, it parses. Thank you. I still have no idea what you're trying to say.

@tindall @craigmaloney@octodon.socialI meant: I can understand you, Foss is there probably something hidden under the surface!
The situation has a bad rather effect to society because in most cases those have no idea of the confict of interrest of non-free and see only the leads of make belive progress and not the proof of actual knowledge and entire performance canniness for and from society.and next-

@tindall Oh yeah, I remember there was even a term for it back in the day: E3, "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish." Funny how things change... Or not.

@ben @tindall And trying to search the web for information on a Windows problem results in seven pages of scam websites trying to get you to install their "cleaner" exe.

@wyatwerp @_sizeofcat Maybe! But, on the other hand, a small number of large companies are the largest polluters, and in fact are majority polluters, outstripping even the entirety of private citizens.


Is it all, or primarily, transacted B2B? As long as consumers are a link, the corporate "value" chain can be weakened/broken by reduction/abstinence of consumers. Buying organic local food can make a dent (going vegan, a bigger dent).

This whole focus on corporates is because of thinking only/primarily as consumers. Thinking as whole humans more of the time could throw up better ideas, especially for targeting the B2G "value" chain.


@tindall Nice thread ^^

@tindall @hope Reminds me of this mem

@tindall As IT guy (after my useless dev diploma), the only limitation I had was "it's better to do nothing than to do harm".

Makes 99% of jobs out there unsuitable, and because I could afford to not work most of the time, I just went with it (for the 1% remaining, I tried a few thing, but I somehow realized they were mostly "rare/very wanted" job, and it'd be just rude to steal it from people who need to work.

I finally created my own small 1 guy company. But it's luxury, I know that :(

@tindall As IT guy (after my useless dev diploma), the only limitation I had was "it's better to do nothing than to do harm".

Makes 99% of jobs out there unsuitable, and because I could afford to not work most of the time, I just went with it (for the 1% remaining, I tried a few thing, but I somehow realized they were mostly "rare/very wanted" jobs, and it'd be just wrong to steal it from people who need it.

I finally created my own small 1 guy company. But it's luxury. It's not fair. :(