Girls have this thing where they support each other emotionally, hug each other, etc. I hear guys struggle a lot more when they're lonely because you average guy has been conditioned to never show emotion or weakness. Guys are supposed to be these impermeable strongmen that reassure others. Protectors. I never fit that template. Wouldn't mind if other people protected me, to be frank. Doesn't hurt my pride.
With age, I feel less and less insecure about just admitting that I don't fit this template of "manliness". I'm not very "manly" and... funny thing is, even women are sexist about this. I dated someone who said "You're supposed to take it." and well, that made me feel like shit, because I failed to meet that expectation... an expectation imposed on me, really. And, you know, most women do seem to instinctually want this, and they sense when you don't satisfy that requirement.
Now, the problem with judging women for that is that this means you have to judge the majority of women as sexist. I mean, that's the truth on the ground. They expect a protector, someone reassuring, a handyman, etc. I'm none of that.
Now, if I chose to accept this standard, I would also have to accept that I'm inadequate, which would wreak havoc on my self-esteem.
For self-preservation purposes, it seems better to judge women for this.
@SirSpencer This is irony. I cannot ask a woman to do this. They have their preferences. I cannot change that. That's their prerogative.
@SirSpencer But, I am who I am. I am never going to be at a place of comfort where I can "be a man" in the usual sense.
@thor sort of the point of the meme. The irony/humor in this meme is the principal always correctly identifies the problem, self-contemplates, but then erroneously concludes that he should not change because it is everyone else who is wrong.
@SirSpencer And, in this age of tolerance and all, it seems ironic, jarring, that being a man who does not conform also makes him inadequate. Women speak of sexism, but they are rather hypocritical if you ask me.
@SirSpencer It's not so much about "should" for me, but...
My mother always told me "Be yourself."
And I didn't listen. I tried to be who people expected me to be... and I had a mental breakdown trying to conform... to fit the template.
Not doing that anymore.
@thor "rules for thee and not for me" seems to be a common theme of modern social justice causes, and feminism is no exception to this.
@SirSpencer I once told my cousin that feminism ends in the bedroom, and she admitted that this is true.
@SirSpencer I gotta feel all right with myself, and the only way of making that make sense is to not feel all right about certain people. I mean, ultimately, you have to pick between your standards and other people's standards, and once you do that, you necessarily have to judge one as inferior.
@thor I read a bunch of your Toots. I'm a woman and I totally agree with you. For ex. men's depression isn't taken seriously, I've read an article about a man living with an abusive wife but nobody would believe him since "he's a guy". Some women also believe that they can be jerks in a relationship (cheat, spend all the money etc.) but they become Karens level 9000 when a man does this. Like, we can't achieve equal rights if women expect men to pay everything for them. Just split the food bill
@karin_artss Reality on the ground is *somewhat* closer to this in Scandinavia, but mmm... not as much as you'd think, given state sanctioned feminism, welfare state, etc. People largely follow gender patterns.
@thor I also think that it's important that people in a relationship should shower each other with compliments and occasionally "spoil" each other with flowers or dinners etc. because men like that too and they never get that because "they are men". Frick they are human beings too!
@karin_artss I've sent flowers to women. Not only for romantic purposes. I sent flowers to mom one time, and she almost cried. I should've done it more often (she has passed away).
@karin_artss When she died, I learned that no, not everyone gets a happy ending (it's complex, but basically, she never really got what she deserved, very unlucky). My parents lost their illusions. They thought they could just do "as you're supposed to" and get rewarded for it... and the truth is that life doesn't do that. Good people suffer bad fates, bad people can enjoy life. "Life isn't fair" is painfully true, in my experience.
@karin_artss So, these days, I live according to my values, no matter how unreasonable. I'm not Mr. Perfect, Mr. Has His Life Together. I'm a tad chaotic, but this seems to be my comfort point. I mean, you've got to look out for Numero Uno, i.e. yourself.
@thor True, it's also sad that nice people have more character development because they were hurt but learned something from it. Bad people hurt others and don't care. The world isn't black and white, but there are clearly those who deserve much more and those who don't :/
@thor And I fully support you! :D it's very important to have self-respect, especially in a room where nobody respects you. Are ya gonna join them and trash yourself or are you going to be the only one liking yourself and treating yourself well? That's my motto
@karin_artss While I get pissed off at some people... I also realise that everyone is, to some extent, a victim of their circumstances.
I don't really believe in free will.
Sure, you can make decisions, but what did you base them on? Your basic personality traits and your environment, both of which weren't up to you to decide. So, what is free will, really?
@thor I see your point. I'm not a psychologist but I know that people tend to agree to what the group is saying to the point that you might totally disagree with something but you're too afraid of saying your opinion out loud
@karin_artss There is this absurd social phenomenon where many people may quietly agree with thing X, but since this isn't accepted by the group, nobody will admit to it, and if you dare admit to it, this is then used against you... which is insane, if you ask me, but that's how humans work...
@thor THIS. IKR. I've been in that situation before in school. It sometimes went to the point that I just left the building and sat alone outside since I couldn't stand those people. Finnish philosophy: silence is better than bullsh*t
@karin_artss Ah, there is another one...
Better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.
— Maurice Switzer
@thor Agreed 👍
(Stupidity can also be used as a tactic: if people think you're stupid, they'll almost certainly underestimate you)
@karin_artss One thing that I find frightening is how often simply seeming confident will make people think you're an expert on something... I worked in IT for a while and felt confident about programming... and without providing a shred of evidence for my skills, people just believed that I knew what I was doing... I can see how incompetent politicians can talk their way into office. Just appear confident, and people will trust you...
@thor You put something into words that I couldn't. I have similar experiences and also experiences on how people will trash you when you fail. Say you're learning a language and your friend asks you to translate something. You warn them that your translation might be off but you do it anyway. The translation is later revealed to be off and the "friend" trashes you even tho you warned that the translation might be off
@thor But also that's pretty scary. If I were to introduce myself as a Doctor of Medicine and claim that drinking something toxic cures a person from corona then some people would blindly go and do so. It can also be used in ads to manipulate people: just show a video of a man in professional clothes, claim that he's a doctor who uses this product X to strengthen his muscles and you're set to go...
@thor @karin_artss I wish it were absurd, but instead it’s entirely and totally sensible. Even completely rational robots could justify lying about what they agree with to avoid punishment. And even completely rational robots could understand how to rip people off and get away with it, because unjustly punishing a few people for squealing makes everyone afraid to protest. It’s the science of behavior manipulation at its worst.
@thor Guys can’t… give birth. It only takes one guy for a hundred girls to produce babies, so that means the other 99 guys can just… die. Encouraging them to engage in risky behavior is a hallmark of a patriarchy, in which the guy on top wants an excuse to be the father of many. Sure it ruins our gene pool, but he doesn’t care about that… and since we give him all the power by only using his money, there’s nobody who can stop him.
If I’m free to choose between bad choices, how is that a good thing? And if there is only one good choice, why does it matter whether I chose to pick it or not? I think people made up the fake “free will” conundrum to distract us from them taking away our good choices. What we want is not choices, but happy outcomes. It’s not bad to be forced to do something, if you agree with it.
@thor @karin_artss This strikes me off as a tad solipsistic. The thing is many men were looking only for immediate selves for millennia and look where it got them? This whole narrative about strong individualism reminds me of a cope fantasy that men project, when society ditches them and doesn't care anymore.
@cy @thor What you implied with your lazy biologism about human reproduction is anti male, manuresphere tier ahistorical bullshit. It seems the modern left wing nut jobs are just as much into scapegoating as their alt right fuck buddies. Just like trad con mental cases you elected to blame the men at the top for female choices. Never mind those are pandering just as much to their wives as the lower classes of men. Never mind it’s women who are responsible for “encouraging men to engage in risky behavior,” by using them as proxies. Bezos’ ex, for instance, got billions out of her divorce settlement, yet you still imply she is a victim, despite her walking out with ill-gotten money that her husband risked to gain. Sure capitalist wives are off-limits for criticism for some reason.
Have this video as a parting shot, my low status resentful friend. Make “Money for nothing, chicks for free” your daily motto, your post rings with the same resentful energy.
BTW patriarchy doesn’t exist, and never did, male feminist ally. The concept makes as much sense, as say, a Semitic conspiracy. So believing in patriarchy makes you a gender anti Semite to boot.
@scomulko Historically, the opportunity for women has always been higher at the bottom than the top. It’s my understanding that a patriarchy is a few rich men tyrannizing everyone else, men and women alike. Some are responsible for propping that system up, others victims of it, to varying degrees. I think Bezos and his ex-wife are both victimizing the rest of us by merely having that much destabilizing wealth, not even counting the other ways they’ve screwed us over.