GNU/blobcat

Lemmy is a free open source federated alternative to Reddit. You can follow their official account at:

➡️ @LemmyDev

You can try the flagship instance at https://lemmy.ml

They have now introduced federation between Lemmy instances, so people on one Lemmy instance can interact with people on others. (They are working on federating with the rest of the Fediverse later.)

@FediFollows @LemmyDev #Lemmy performs hard coded censorship. I refuse to use #Fediverse software that is censorous at its very core.

@icedquinn @realcaseyrollins @FediFollows @LemmyDev I can't make a community named "pussy" because it's marked in the code as a slur. It's a good feature but it needs to be an abstract and configurable list

@icedquinn @FediFollows @LemmyDev @aktivismoEstasMiaLuo is more knowledgeable about this then I am but they have, in the code itself, a blacklist of words that you cannot use in the title or description of a post.

@realcaseyrollins @FediFollows @LemmyDev @aktivismoEstasMiaLuo send a PR to have it read from a file instead?
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@John @icedquinn @realcaseyrollins @FediFollows @LemmyDev fork it and call devs a pussy like the deserve

@1iceloops123 @icedquinn @realcaseyrollins @FediFollows @LemmyDev if they put rate limit controls and the blacklist in the UI i'd donate and we'd be cool

@John @1iceloops123 @realcaseyrollins @FediFollows @LemmyDev have they actually said they won't?

@icedquinn @realcaseyrollins @FediFollows @LemmyDev @1iceloops123 There hasn't been a response from the issues I don't think - just a nice to have I think

@John @icedquinn @FediFollows @LemmyDev @1iceloops123 A blacklist should NEVER be hard coded by default tho. That’s just common sense.

@realcaseyrollins @FediFollows @LemmyDev @icedquinn @1iceloops123 we all take short cuts... to start. but now they have funding and donations rolling in, it's time to improve the software's basic functions

@realcaseyrollins @John @1iceloops123 @FediFollows @LemmyDev if they were trying to rush to some MVP and hadn't gotten around to it, i guess.

this requires setting up API endpoints and/or picking a config format and possibly adding events to react to changes. a handful of things that if they do not already have, would take more time than just stuffing the list in an array and calling it done for now.

@John @1iceloops123@shitposter.club @icedquinn @realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @FediFollows We literally have that.

@FediFollows @LemmyDev what does federating with the rest of the fediverse look like? It will be able to see posts from mastodon? I dont get how this would work in the ui

@nx for now federation only works between lemmy instances. federating with other software is more complicated and will come later.

@FediFollows

@LemmyDev What will that look like though? I'm confused about what benefits that would entail. Being able to login with mastodon accounts? or being able to view mastodon posts\threads in lemmy?

@nx @LemmyDev

I don't know what Lemmy has planned.

However, I think there was a previous attempt at a Fediverse reddit alternative called Prismo a while ago?

It's not active any more but IIRC the Mastodon interaction was being able to follow users, reply to topics and upvote posts. From the Mastodon end it looked like any other topic thread, likes were interpreted as upvotes.

The main benefit would be a huge userbase increase, Mastodon already has millions of registered users.

@FediFollows @nx @LemmyDev

there is still a prismo instance live here if anyone wants to play with it. supports full federation

https://prismo.fedibird.com/

@FediFollows @nx @LemmyDev there's also https://littr.me that's a (still non)federated link aggregator. This is my project and federation is estimated to work sometime at the beginning of the next year.

@FediFollows @LemmyDev Would really like to see the near insistence on Docker go away so an admin could, you know, just install the components from source via step by step instructions.

@icedquinn @LemmyDev @FediFollows @realcaseyrollins that PR would be refused. devs have said that they deliberately hard coded the slur filter so that every Lemmy intance has the same hard-coded words. The problem is that some of those words are substrings of normal dictionary words, so legit noncontroversial posts get harsh treatment. It's clumsy b/c you can't even quote or mock someone who uses a slur.

@realcaseyrollins @FediFollows @LemmyDev @icedquinn I think there is a project "" that removes the hard-coded slur filter. And of course it's also rediculous that a fork must be maintained for that, which could then break the connectivity.

@geewillickers thats just not practical for us as official installation method, because lemmy consists of 5 different services (db, backend, frontend, image hosting, link previews). but it could be an option for some people. we have an open issue regarding docs for manual installation, so you are welcome to write the documentation.

@FediFollows

@LemmyDev @FediFollows

I don't get it - why is it not practical? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like everyone involved in making the docker image are kind of refusing (maybe not the best wording of it) to document how the docker image is built, and how the components interact with each other (the basics on getting services to work together), but you're obviously working with the knowledge of what one needs to run them outside of a docker image. So why not provide those details, even in a mostly generic fashion? "Install X, Y, Z, G, and L, grab the configs from our git repository in folder X and massage to your needs"?

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @LemmyDev @FediFollows @realcaseyrollins do it anyway or capture the link they specifically refused it. i'll put the refusal notice on /z/

@nx The 2nd one. You could follow not only federated communities from the instance you're signed up on, but federated users.

@geewillickers @FediFollows You're free to come up with a way to build / install every service lemmy depends on, and document them as you go along, but we personally don't have time to do that. Its been an open issue for a long time and no one has attempted it.

@LemmyDev

I just get a 'Bad Gateway' error trying to visit Lemmy.ml :(

@joli Sorry about that, should be fixed now.

@geewillickers to add, the documentation for installing lemmy is precisely inside the dockerfile, written in bash. the relation between services is described in the docker-compose.yml. it shouldnt be very hard to translate it into a guide (but we have too many things to do already).

@FediFollows

@LemmyDev @FediFollows The idea of that could be kind of fun, I may have to check that out in further detail than I've looked at previously.

@thegergo02 @realcaseyrollins @FediFollows @LemmyDev @icedquinn I'm on the left myself which generally implies an extra dose of respect for unhindered speech, but the devs are so far left that they support , which places its own ideology well above . Antifa is even open to violent protest to carry out its ideology.

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @thegergo02 @FediFollows @LemmyDev @icedquinn Yes, you are on the traditional left, not radical. Classical liberals like #TimPool feel the same way you do about #FreeSpeech.

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @icedquinn @LemmyDev @FediFollows @realcaseyrollins That is so incredibly short sighted. Language adapts, and is also not universal. People will just work around the problem and insult people in some other way.

@joli @LemmyDev Lemmy.ml is a terrible instance to use anyway. They're censoring legit posts with reckless disregard, and they've even been caught covering up the censorship by changing the modlogs.

@bojkotiMalbona @joli You posted a scam/spam link to a credit card application. We don't allow scams on our instances, start your own instance if you want to be full of spam like that.

@LemmyDev @joli That wasn't my post, it was a reply to me. Apparently @aktivismoEstasMiaLuo's posted that to .ml. But I reviewed it & see no spam or scam. "The True Value Discover Card program ended on 3/6/2020. Because of this, we are no longer accepting new applications." <- is that what you're calling "spam/scam"?

@bojkotiMalbona @LemmyDev @joli

I'm asking if anyone knows of a 3rd-party credit card that works on the network, now that True Value has discontinued their card.

.ml ownership censored my question (in my own community that I moderate)-- apparently their anti-capitalism beliefs won't allow credit card discussion even when the ultimate goal is to find a card that's less socially irresponsible than the typical options.

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @joli @LemmyDev perhaps English isn't their 1st language. I can see how someone not fluent in English might think the post is spam.

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @joli @LemmyDev perhaps English isn't their 1st language. I can see how someone not fluent in English might think the post is spam. OTOH, there is a box that starts with "When painting, planting or plumbing, every DYI-er can use a helping hand. Apply for..." - where does that come from?

@bojkotiMalbona

I didn't write what's in that box. I don't know where it came from. If you follow link, it doesn't say that on the webpage.

@joli @LemmyDev

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @LemmyDev @joli ah, it's in the raw HTML. <meta name="description" content="When painting, planting or plumbing,

@bojkotiMalbona

That wasn't there when the post was censored. It's a new feature. So they censored it b/c they think what I wrote is spam, or (more likely) their stance against capitalism.

@LemmyDev @joli

@bojkotiMalbona @joli @aktivismoEstasMiaLuo That's an expired credit card application link, lol. Again, if you want to start an instance full of credit card spam, you're free to do so.

@LemmyDev But changing modlogs does not sound too cool? @bojkotiMalbona @aktivismoEstasMiaLuo

@LemmyDev

Yes, of course. My whole point was that the credit card is discontinued. I'm looking for a replacement option.

@bojkotiMalbona @joli

@joli @LemmyDev @bojkotiMalbona

Not cool indeed. This modlog used to show that a post about the status of the cock.li mail server was censored b/c the word "cock" was in the subject line:

https://lemmy.ml/modlog/community/14998

After some spot-lighting & thus embarrassment, they cleared it from the modlog to hide the act of censorship itself. (The right move would have been to uncensor the msg, but that didn't happen)

@joli @LemmyDev @bojkotiMalbona

Also if you look at what the modlog still shows, where someone commented about the risk of email providers going out of business, that's also an abuse of power that came from the ownership, not the moderator.

@loweel

what's "native advertisement"? No one is promoting in any of the posts we've discussed.

@bojkotiMalbona @joli @LemmyDev

@loweel

As I said, none of the posts at issue even remotely promote Lemmy.

@bojkotiMalbona @joli @LemmyDev

@loweel

You tried to make a point, and you failed. Feel free to clarify if you want to actually make sense.

@bojkotiMalbona @joli @LemmyDev

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @LemmyDev @joli @loweel i think loweel is trying to say that the hidden raw HTML (which you didn't write) is "native advertising". At best it's a s/w bug, but as you said, that wasn't there at the time the post was censored.

@bojkotiMalbona

Right, so it's a red herring on either either form of "native advertizing".

@LemmyDev @joli @loweel

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @loweel @joli @LemmyDev .ml is so trigger happy with the censor button that no doubt users in the future will get stung by the mechanism that reads the HTML description of a page. They're not clever enough to give the user the ability to edit that text.

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo Is this because I recommended Lemmy over Reddit in my first toot? I just think opensource and federation is cool, I'm not affiliated with Lemmy or anything. @loweel @bojkotiMalbona @LemmyDev

@joli
are you FediFollows? The thread became rational for avoiding the lemmy.ml instance, but there could be a decent instance by now. I still have to try https://lemmy.glasgow.social to see if there is a censorship problem there.

The problem with software (which all nodes would have) is that users can't control the summary of shared links & that the modlogs can be manipulated.

@loweel @bojkotiMalbona @LemmyDev

@joli @bojkotiMalbona @aktivismoEstasMiaLuo We've never changed a modlog, so I have no idea where they're getting that from.

@LemmyDev @bojkotiMalbona @joli The modlog for c/email showed the censorship of a discussion on the cock.li status, then it was spotlighted an example of excessive , and now it's not there. But the original post is not there either. Moderators do not have the power to suppress modlogs. It can only be done by someone in control of the instance.

@loweel it really depends if maintainers of other projects help us or not. we have plenty of work with lemmy, so we wont investigate federation with different software anytime soon. but if devs of another project helped us to fix incompatible things, that could speed up things a lot. which project do you want to federate with?

@FediFollows @nx

@LemmyDev @loweel i think mastodon federation is the most important since its the most popular and would work the best with likes being upvotes and threads already working like threads

@loweel @FediFollows @nx We both use activitypub, but the entire fediverse currently is based on the twitter model of following users. Lemmy is based on the reddit model of following communities. The bridge between the two can only be made when we add user-following (which we will do much later), or the rest of the fediverse adds community following.

@LemmyDev @loweel @FediFollows @nx but you could at least add login via activitypub, in the way that websites have login via google/facebook, right?

@fluffy @loweel @FediFollows @nx That's oauth sign in or universal sign-in, and it has nothing to do with federation.

Actually its quite antithetical to federation, which is why all fediverse services don't support it.

@loweel our implementation is documented here, and we are happy to clarify if anything is unclear.

https://lemmy.ml/docs/contributing_apub_api_outline.html

@lain @Gargron @FediFollows @nx

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @FediFollows @LemmyDev @icedquinn I’ve hopped back on, and it looks like the project has greatly improved. The users claim that the word ban antifeature can be easily altered or removed. I suggested the possibility of making those alterations possible in the UI/frontend, but was unsurprisingly met with a chilling response.

Also, it seems like derpy.email, the instance that #Lenny was created for, is no longer operational, and has closed registrations as well. We could absolutely be served by a flagship #Lenny instance, if anyone feels like hosting one…

@realcaseyrollins @LemmyDev @FediFollows @icedquinn the slur filter was originally implemented so recklessly that if a substring matched the regex, the UI would hard & fast refuse to accept the whole composition with no specific error, and so users were forced to throw away a potentially long (labor intensive) msg in a way that was blind to the mods & ownership, so the problem wasn't even trackable.

@icedquinn @FediFollows @LemmyDev @realcaseyrollins Lemmy evolved from that but this is not just a coding botch.. it reflects reckless disregard for colatteral damage to legitimate users who have no malicious or nefarious intent or effect. devs & lemmy.ml are tyrants in both their design and especially in their management style. Indeed we need to avoid tyranny, thus different devs, which hopefully will satisfy.

@realcaseyrollins @LemmyDev @FediFollows @icedquinn Lenny can't likely solve this problem though: is hard-coded to require client-side javascript to the point that text of posts is entirely unreachable w/out it. This ruins the use of archive.org, so if a node goes down or if becomes CloudFlared access to content can be lost forever. And if a moderator abuses their power to censor, archive.org is blocked from showing the abuse.

@icedquinn @FediFollows @LemmyDev @realcaseyrollins The authoritarian attitude of devs is hard-wired into the design such that the whole project should be scrapped. E.g.it would never occur to Lemmy devs that a censored post, whether it breaks rules or not, should be quarantined & preserved in a way that it can be ported to another instance where the rules and standards are more accommodating. Design decisions would resist it

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @icedquinn @FediFollows @LemmyDev If you don’t like #JavaScript, check out #lotide. Unlike #Lemmy, it actually federated with other #Fediverse softwares, and it doesn’t need #JavaScript at all! It’s got more of a #HackerNews feel to it too, which is pretty dope.

Check out narwhal.city, it’s the flagship instance atm

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @icedquinn@blob.cat @FediFollows @LemmyDev @realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live We have a public modlog that is used by default. If your problem is that post CAN be removed from the server at all, then you'll be sorely disappointed with basically every fediverse site.

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live @LemmyDev @FediFollows@mastodon.online@icedquinn@blob.cat Blatantly untrue now: https://web.archive.org/web/20210128184640/http://lemmy.ml/

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @icedquinn@blob.cat @FediFollows @LemmyDev @realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live If your definition of tyranny is being able to use slurs, then I don't know what to tell you, but sure, we're tyrants under that definition.

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @icedquinn@blob.cat @FediFollows @LemmyDev @realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live If your definition of tyranny is not being able to insult marginalized groups with slurs, then I don't know what to tell you, but sure, we're tyrants under that definition.